Serious or Farce

[Mallius]

Often the issue of group dynamic comes to the forefront of my thoughts on roll playing. I believe certain games have certain play styles that attract gamers to them, however i believe that the overall tone depends truly on the group dynamic.

I'm curious to know how other people find their play styles interacting in world of darkness games.
There are so many great in depth themes and philosophical issues that root the world of darkness into a modern horror game, but how many people find their game becoming a series of jokes and one liners? This is my personal experience, mostly due to how free form and loose environment we have int the group, therefore we usually are cracking jokes all over the place, but are there people who have played a serious game of World of Darkness and maybe have explored some more of the serious themes in the game?

[GM Vince]

good topic, will have to watch this one for the show.

[Law]

I don't allow the off-topic table-talk, jokes, etc. at the table when we are "in-scene" while playing most games. I also try to discourage meta-game talk (questions about rules, rolls ,etc.) when we are in the middle of a scene (though that only works with experienced players). Players can speak in the first person (usually when having a conversation, line by line) or in the third person (when speaking narration about their character). Also, no books are allowed at the table.

Granted, most people (myself included) can't keep in-character for very long, so I keep the scene segments short and we take "breathers" between them. During a breather, players can talk out of character, ask about rolls and rules, consult the books, and make jokes, etc.

It works pretty well, I think. Kimberly would probably be a better judge of its success than I. I'll poke her to post here tonight.

[Mallius]

I don't allow the off-topic table-talk, jokes, etc. at the table when we are "in-scene" while playing most games. I also try to discourage meta-game talk (questions about rules, rolls ,etc.) when we are in the middle of a scene (though that only works with experienced players). Players can speak in the first person (usually when having a conversation, line by line) or in the third person (when speaking narration about their character). Also, no books are allowed at the table.

Granted, most people (myself included) can't keep in-character for very long, so I keep the scene segments short and we take "breathers" between them. During a breather, players can talk out of character, ask about rolls and rules, consult the books, and make jokes, etc.

Thanks for the insight. I'm really interested in knowing how this works out for your group. I'm also curious if many of the deeper serious themes have come up in any of your games... i sometimes wonder if it requires a degree in psychology to write a white wolf book as their games are written rather intelligently. (i personally like this however it does discourage my players from reading the books themselves and they usually rely on second hand information from me.)

I'm going to post a few other topics in the general rpg forums regarding questions in gamer availability and game specific content questions, so make sure you check those out too. Thanks Law for your response.

[Beckett]

I don't mind people joking when I run a game, as long is it doesn't derail the game, (completely). Two things I need to say to qualify my answer though. 1.) I game with people I am friends with outside of gaming. 2.) I don't use a lot of notes or plan when I ST, so it is already freeform.

I find that trying to force people to stay In Character is only fun for ST's and the few gamers that like that sort of thing, while most people can handle stepping out for a moment. This also allows them to reenter their character freshly during the game, which both gives them a different perspective of that character and also keeps that character interesting (to the players).

There is a line, though, and there was one common player of mine that didn't understand it. He would often try to force circumstances in a game, (any game, not just WoD), so that his character could spout a Knights of the Dinner Table line, or a Monte Python quote, or worstof all that G-daweful Fight Club, and it could get rediculous. The big difference was that most people at the table, or couch, or floor, also didn't get into the mood with him, and after a while most became annoyed with his predictability.

When it wasn't too bad, that is how this guy liked to enjoy gaming, and there is no wrong there. Gaming is about having fun, and out of character jokes can both break other players bad moods and also change their deadlocked minds at times, allowing them to think of things they couln't before.

In my opinion, it isn't (usually) the joking or getting out of character that is bad as much as it is 1.) judging other peoples tolerance for it and 2.) doing so appropriately (not tellin race jokes, for instance if that is going to make someone mad) but also at time when the story will not suffer. Two big things I have had trouble with about that are the ST getting distracted and forgetting to drop vital information and fogetting where they were in the story.

[Mallius]

I couldn't agree more with what you have to say Beckett, The gaming group i ST for is made up of friends of mine as well, so usually something from off the table is going to leak in. I'm really curious of the themes that you involve in your games however, and if they are well received by the players. I have a hard time evoking horror or dread in my games, maybe the players are simply desensitized to horror, but the gaming environment also makes for a feeling of safety, a feeling of comradery, which is great, but does it make discussing and exploring some of the world of darknesses themes difficult?

i'm starting to think i should make another post discussing themes i think i will. cheers

[Beckett]

Well, many a horror writer has commented on the connction between humor and horror.

So, actually it isn't that difficult to keep the mood of the WoD if ou understand that. In a lot of horror movies or books, or whatever, they often tell jokes, which intentionally breaks the mood, for a moment. A long enough moment that when the joke is over, the characters sit and relax a moment and then the horror set right back in, but a little worse, as they realize all over again how bad things really are. Personaly, I think this woks best when used with themes along the lines of hopelessness, banality, the unknown, or "the end is comming".

It is more about using what the players do, think, act, or say rather than trying to resist it.

[Kim_Possible]

It works pretty well, I think. Kimberly would probably be a better judge of its success than I. I'll poke her to post here tonight.

I really like it because:

1. It keeps the game focused and moving quickly, and I don't have a lot of time to spare for gaming these days.

2. Switching to 3rd person narration, while still in-character and game-moving, is a lot easier (and less stressful) for most people.

3. Frequent breaks for fun, jokes, and cheetos are a nice counterbalance.

4. It doesn't preclude, and in fact encourages in-character humor, which is often funnier and always more appropriate than out-of-character humor.

[Dr_Ether]

My experience is that onliners/jokes must naturally emerge in game, and are never noted by the person saying them until everyone is either laughing at the black comedy of the line (which was never initially intended) or the sheer coolness of the scene (again never intended).

I try to limit as much out of game chatter/joke referencing as much as possible. I really can't stand it. Worse forced one liners turn the game into a pathetic attempt at Buffy (this was my issue with my problem player).

I don't think that this can be a problem due to players and ST being friends out of game, but instead the attitude of the players. SOme players see it all as a 'game' and so breaking mood never occurs to them, while to others mood is every thing. I also don't think it is due to how loose or tight the plotting of the game is. Again the issue is mood and theme. Some people just can't keep to it.

For example in a Technocracy game I was playing in I, a NWO agent, in all seriousness turned to the female Progenitor and said 'Look if we want to spy on him why don't you sleep with him and infect him with your bio spies'. The look I got was priceless, that OOC moment of 'my god that is so insane', yet in game it was deadly serious and taken as such, and in fact the amusement that a players character had to go sleep with the enemy made the moment more horrific. IN my current vampire games I am slowly cranking up the horror while ensuring the PCs have also very mundane tasks to perform, and it this contrast that makes the horror, well, more horrific.

[Beckett]

Worse forced one liners turn the game into a pathetic attempt at Buffy (this was my issue with my problem player).

Just an observation. . . Not directed at anyone in specific.

What if that is in character, though? It kind of seems like joking and out of character fun are suppossed to be wrong in some people's opinions. I am just wondering how then you would draw the line. If it is because the player is joking, a character that is always joking would still "break the mood", but well, it is completely In Character.

You can't hardly argue that character that spout one-lines when they are nervous, or are joke-tellers/comedians/overly social are unrealistic.